Pinning?

[superyong]

I've been trying to force pinning recently, mostly with cold shock, but nothing. All im getting is this new white fuzz on top of the cake? Is this normal?

[legallyhomeless]

Its probally myc but pics help. cold shocking DOESNT HELP CUBES

[ParadoX]

I got the exact same thing after cold shocking the cake for 2.75 hours. It took 3 days to appear as on the attached picture.

I read about a fuzzy white contaminant that could appear on the cakes but the site is down at the moment and from what I remember, it wasn't looking exactly the same. (http://www.sporetradingpost.com/contamination_info.htm)

The cake suffered from a fall on the metal grid supporting it hence a "cut" piece on top. Moreover, I noticed some humidity drops on the cake after I've put the picture on the computer. Could it be the the cause ?

I got the same fuzzies in my still colonizing jars (almost complete). It was hard for the mycelia network to spread at the bottom of the jar so I helped a bit by allowing a CO2 -> O2 air exchange by unscrewing the lid a little bit, flipping the jar upside down and making the cake fall a bit. I was confident in this method since it was almost all colonized.

Refer to the pic if you're more visual ;) First one is the fuzzy stuff after 3 days. Second picture is how it looked initially.

Controlled humidity of 95%, average temperature between 22.75 and 24.00 degrees celsius.

Thanks for the help.

[fungusamungus]

looks good paradox, just a few more days and you'll be very pleased

[fungusamungus]

next time, try dunking in water for no more than 24 hrs, no less than 12. then put a small layer of moist vermiculite on the top and bottom of the cake, after full colonization, it makes a huge difference

[ParadoX]

Cool thanks for the tips :)

When dunking, does it have to be distilled water, spring water or normal tap water ? My tap water smells chlorine quite a bit.

And I thought that dunking was useful after a few completed flushes (2-3) instead of at the beggining.

Considering that the air in the terrarium is VERY humid, is it still useful to put vermiculite under and on top ? Does it bring any protection to the cake ?

Thanks again for your help

[fungusamungus]

I use tap water-but I have a filter on my faucet because my water is also very chlorinated. They say spring water is the best. Dunking simply rehydrates the cakes and since shrooms are 90% water they really like it, at the beginning and also in between flushes.
The vermiculite is just a mini-casing for them, it helps the cakes retain the moisture, not really for fighting off contams. Just helps the mushies grow better,
Fully colonized cakes are much better equiped to fight of contams.
Hope this helps and good luck in your journeys.

[ParadoX]

Cool thanks again for the great help :)

What about filling the colonized jar with water and putting it to the fridge for 24h ? Do you think it'll be enough water and also make it easier to get out of the jar ? Right now it's pretty hard to get the cake out and it's a good thing I had infected jars to practice on :) I must gently hit one side of the jar then gently hit the other side until the cake gets out.

[fungusamungus]

thats what I always do, just lighty scrape off the dry verm on top and fill with water. Just don't dunk more than 24hrs. it will supposedly drown the myc.

[ParadoX]

I just dunked one of my cakes. It was too hard to remove from the jar so I'm trying this. It took quite a while for the water to fill the jar but I'm confident. I'll leave it in the fridge for 18 hours. Hopefully it will help fruiting and removing from the jar :)

[Viejo Seta]

is there a certain ph level that should be used when adding water?

[fattdog]

the best pin method i have found is to soak some verm in water until u can form a ball spread on a baking sheet heat until steamy let cool down still warm to the touch and roll or pack your colonized cake in and set on a small plate in your grow chamber i have found that the part of the cake that was the top or neck of the jar down will fruit first. i have used fully colonized cakes and half colonized cakes i have never had a contamination problem while the bottom of cake is fruiting the rest will colonize. the only time i have had contamination probs is inside the jar while colonizing .a lot of teks do not reccomend removing cakes before 100% colonize but i have done it hundreds of times. after pinning starts i will directly spray my cakes as the verm comes off u will have exposed myc. and will start pinning i have also chunked up the cakes into 2 or 3 inch chuncks and packed them firmly into a small square dish 8 inches by 10 inches or so and packed wet warm verm on top put back in the dark and warmth after 10 days or so flip it out of the mold and u will have a flat cake leave the vermiculite under it and wput in chamber they fruit from the sides and dont stop. smaller fruites but doesnt effect potency and spray directly with water after they start to dry out i use an old spore syrynge and inject both flat cakes and jar cakes and have had sucsess. in non stop fruit. i have grown single shrooms on broken off chunks of myc no bigger than a few inches. i came upon these methods by screwing around and trying different things i have concluded it it better to have 30 0r 40 small fruits about an inch or two tall before caps open than to have large meaty mushies weight counts for nothing each cubie produces its own good stuff and stops producing after a few days of growth. eat em small .if its profit your after than grow em big. with all of these expirement use common sense with sterilization and cleanliness i use bleach and water mix on tools and equipment and use rubbing alcohal and anti bacterial hand gel for my self frequently during all prosseses. my grow chamber is a large clear rubbermaid bin 2and a half feet long 2 feet wide and 2 feet deep with perlite on the bottom soaked in tap water with lid i have another one with no lid underneath it with an electric blanket inside the bottom contaner is dry i place my jars or cakes in the bottm put the electric blanket over it ind slide the top one inside the blanket serves as a heat source for both colonizing and growing i use a cool lamp on top along with a heating pad to warm the top a digital therm with a humidity read out on it the top box stayes about 80 degrees f and 99 to 90 %humidity and the bottom dry box stqayes at 85 degrees f. i live in a cold climate area so i will use other heat if nesecarry just watch for fire hazards again the common sense thing helps.if any one would like to know more detail about these methods or anything else i can pass along just post on here and if i can help i will remember i am also a novice at mycoligy and do these things for personal use. these things have worked for me and if they help im glad. original credit must go to PF TEK is how i started everything. using that method with my own spins i bought 3 sporesyryinges differnt strains and from those 3 strains i have grown hundreds of goodies for me my family and friends .good luck with all projects. common sense is your best tool

[Neotoma]

Actually, cold shocking does help some cubensis fruit. I would not pin it down to strain, but certian cakes do respond to it. I would not write off cold shocking.

[Mycrobia]

Psilocybe cubensis Growth Parameters

taken from

Paul Stamets and J. S. Chilton: The Mushroom Cultivator
If you want more information (and there is plenty!), go buy the book


Mycelial Types: Rhizomorphic to linear; whitish in overall color but often bruising bluish where injured.
Standard Spawn Medium: Rye grain. See Chapter III.
Fruiting Substrate: Rye grain; wheat straw; leached horse or cow manure and/or horse manure/straw compost balanced to a 71-74% moisture content.
Method of Preparation: See Chapters III, V, and VI. Pasteurization achieved through exposure to live steam for 2 hours at 140°F / 60°C. throughout the substrate. Straw or compost should be filled to a depth of 6-12 inches. Straw should be spawned at a rate of 2 cups/sq. ft.

Spawn Run:
Relative Humidity: 90%.
Substrate Temperature: 84 - 86°F / 28.8 - 30°C. Thermal death limits have been established at 106°F / 41.1°C.
Duration: 10-14 days.
CO2: 5000 - 10,000 ppm.
Fresh Air Exchanges: 0 per hour.

Type of Casing: After fully run, cover with the standard casing whose preparations described in Chapter VIII. Layer to a depth of 1-2 inches. The casing should be balanced to an initial pH of 6.8 - 7.2.

Post Casing/Prepinning:
Relative Humidity: 90 %.
Substrate Temperature: 84 - 86°F / 28.8 - 30°C.
Duration of Case Run: 5-10 days.
CO2: 5000-10,000 ppm.
Fresh Air Exchanges: 0 per hour.
Light: Incubation in total darkness.

Primordia Formation:
Relative Humidity: 95-100%.
Air Temperature: 74 - 78°F / 23.3 - 25.5°C.
Duration: 6-10 days.
CO2: less than 5000 ppm.
Fresh Air Exchanges: 1 -3 per hour. (For practical purposes, fanning a terrarium 2-3 times a day is sufficient)
Light: Diffuse natural or exposure for 12-16 hours/day of grow-lux type fluorescent light high in blue spectra at the 480 nanometer wavelength. (See Chapters IV and IX).

Cropping:
Relative Humidity: 85-92%. (For cakes: 95-100% )
Air Temperature: 74-78°F / 23.3 - 25.5°C.
CO2:less than 5000 ppm.
Fresh Air Exchanges: 1 -3 per hour. (For practical purposes, fanning a terrarium 2-3 times a day is sufficient)
Flushing Pattern: Every 5-8 days.
Harvest Stage: When the cap becomes convex and soon after the partial veil ruptures.
Light: Indirect natural or same as above.

Yield Potential: Average yields are 2-4 Ibs. /sq. ft. over a 5 week cropping period. Maximum yield potential has not been established.

Moisture Content of Mushrooms: 92% water; 8% dry matter.

Nutritional Content: Not yet established.

Mycrobia.;)

[Neotoma]

The pf tek works a lot better IMO if you leave the cake in the half pint jar and grow the mushrooms right out of the jar. Remove the lid. Dump the dry vermiculiye. Replace with sterile, wet vermiculite. Keep in dark incubater for a few days until the mycelium grows through the wet layer. IMPORTANT: before fruiting, wrap the bottom and sides of the jar in foil so the light only reaches the top. Mist the vermiculite. This works better than the out of the jar method because the mycelium stays hydrated so much better. You don't need to watch the humidity that closely. It will also teach you about casing really fast...

[AnotherDimension]

dunking in the jar is a good method to use...then take it out, pat it dry, rollin verm and birth. Lately I crumble with the same amount of wbs and then that will be solid in 3 days if mixed well then spawn to poo. It will usually always get fluffy after a dunk...then it will pin again/ Casings keep the outside from getting leathery like on cakes so I am really starting to enjoy casings more now that I am getting better results.

[Fungus Maximus]

Cool thanks for the tips :)

When dunking, does it have to be distilled water, spring water or normal tap water ? My tap water smells chlorine quite a bit.

And I thought that dunking was useful after a few completed flushes (2-3) instead of at the beggining.

Considering that the air in the terrarium is VERY humid, is it still useful to put vermiculite under and on top ? Does it bring any protection to the cake ?

Thanks again for your help


In major studies I have read up on, it is widely accepted that spring water is the absolute best choice, also I can confirm a slight difference in my own studies.

Dunking is useful until your cakes are spent.

By adding wet vermiculite to the bottom and top you are providing an additional complex moisture network, results from double ended vermiculite casing are proven to be an extreme success in most all cases, when fruiting, mushrooms rob a substantial amount of available and relative moisture, having the extra vermiculite compensates for the moisture loss

[ol'harvester]

Hey Paradox.

I have the same white fuzz on my BRF cakes for almost a week now. Still no pins. There was some tissue growth on one cake, but when I took it out of the jar and into the FC, it became encased with the white fuzz.
I am interested in how long your white fuzz has been on your cakes and if you have pins yet.

Thanks.

[AnotherDimension]

Paradox you have to take it out of the jar regardless cuz after you dunk you need to tamp it dry with a paper towel on the outside to avoid bacteria issues and just drowning it. Cold shocking is worthless because Psilicybe cubensis is a tropical species, it fruits when tems drop from 80 is to 72-75 ish, but a cold shock is a waste of time. The water is a pin trigger as well, which is why the day after a good rain shrooms start popping up and 3 days after they are everywhere...
Rolling in verm is a good idea to keep moisture in, though I haven't seen a difference in pinset, now I use bowls and half-ass case my cakes cuz moisture is key. The cake on the left shows myc trying to suck the moisture from the air so your humidity wasn't high enough IMO....or maybe too high....I have seen that both ways but thats what I was told.....anyway patience, and using room temps works best cuz the myc will drop temps on their owns when cycles change, plus, some wont pin til all of the substrate on the inside is colonized....though I have had multiple occourences where jars fruit invitro before full colonization.....you can see my latest projects at shroomotopia.com, we got 2 new versions of white shrooms we created...well i created by accident...lol