Re: drug enhanced mystic abilities

[ChrisC]

On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 18:28:52 -0230, David Dalton <dalton@nfld.com>
wrote:

>Drugs are used in religious practice in various cultures
>worldwide including Central and South American native
>spirituality and Sufi whirling dervish traditions. Years
>ago I supposedly divined the existence of an ability
>called psychotropic drug enhanced abilities which supposedly
>endowed the drug user who had this ability with magical
>powers. Now I later retracted the specifics of that but bet
>that such religious traditions worldwide indicate that some
>drug use and certain meditation practices may result
>in quality mystic states. Such traditions (some
>documented by Wade Davis) may also have some knowledge
>on spacing and alternation of drugs to avoid addiction,
>perhaps, but I am speculating there (i.e. if you
>had ten good drugs and took one every three days
>that would be once a month for each and might not lead to
>addiction).
>
>I have already mentioned the stuff below on alt.religion.shamanism
>where shamanic journeying is often discussed but
>I didn't mention the drug aspect there.
>
>I am posting this here since I think that during
>drug highs, either in body or in astral form, some of
>you might be able to communicate better with afterlife
>someones, species someones (defined below) and
>perhaps even deitie(es) to you than I can (except
>maybe one-way). In addition to deities to
>living humans and others, the meeting I proposed
>below was to include significant species someones
>and also afterlife someones of significant past
>religious figures, and angels (if you don't
>consider such to be afterlife someones). But
>basically I would like you to check, during any
>drug-induced mystic state, whether such a
>meeting is ongoing or will soon; but don't
>believe any such voice unless it also communicates
>with someone you know so you can verify it.
>
>Recently I have been sometimes in prayer mode (but I
>don't hear voices back and if you do, ask the
>voice to send the same message to someone else so
>you can check it), I guess talking one-way to my deities
>again trying to initiate a meeting of all someones
>who are and/or were each deity to at least one DNA-based someone;
>plus others invited and interested but I won't go into details
>here unless someone asks me to, but my prayer/suggestion for
>the agenda was for the meeting to discuss the future of the
>human species, interactions within that species,
>interactions between that species and other species (including
>any alien species we might meet in the next 1000 years and/or
>have met), and interactions of that species within the
>environment whether you define environment as
>the biosphere, as the earth (Gaia), as space
>and its contents (Cosma) or as all/everything (who
>I call God). I also suggested that it judge my
>stuff (writings, speakings, thinkings, magickal
>workings with or without invocations of deities,
>suggestions/prayers, links, link workings,
>species balancings, etc.) of the last 12 years,
>particularly the last 7.55 years, and perhaps
>allow me to graduate as a shaman. Some of you may be
>able to find out if such a meeting is going on but
>I am unable to, but have suggested agenda items
>as you could as well.
>
>The co-chairs of the meeting were to
>be my 8 non-SSOSOSS (SSOSOSS=species someone of other
>species of significant sign; species someone is
>the smallest someone containing a species and may
>be like a collective consciousness only also
>containing bodies and even any parts containing DNA
>[e.g. a seagull feather] or even any DNA [but
>for non-DNA-based species there would have to be
>some parallel to our species-defining DNA]) deities
>who are God (all/everything), LOVE (God's definition
>of love/goodness), Cosma, Galacta (the galaxy),
>Sola (the sun), Gaia, Luna (the moon) and Human
>(the species someone of the human species).
>
>Why should I be able to suggest such a meeting any
>more than anyone else? Well maybe anyone else
>could suggest such a meeting as well.
>
>For more on me if you like see my Salmon on the Thorns page,
>http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html .
>
>David
>
>

Crossposted to see the responses in ARS.
--
ChrisC - chrispche@nospam.yahoo.co.uk

"Enlightenment, for a wave in the ocean,
is the moment the wave realises it is water."

Thich Nhat Hanh.

[Lucida]

On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 12:19:58 +0100, ChrisC
<xchrispcx@nospam.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 18:28:52 -0230, David Dalton <dalton@nfld.com>
>wrote:
>
snip
>>
>>I have already mentioned the stuff below on alt.religion.shamanism
>>where shamanic journeying is often discussed but
>>I didn't mention the drug aspect there.
>>
snip
snip
>>
>>
>
>Crossposted to see the responses in ARS.
>--
>ChrisC - chrispche@nospam.yahoo.co.uk
>
>"Enlightenment, for a wave in the ocean,
>is the moment the wave realises it is water."
>
>Thich Nhat Hanh.

I am assuming that you did not ask David for permission to do so,
since he had specifically indicated deliberately omitting this from
his postings here... It is sad to see so little respect for someone's
wishes, just to advance your own agenda... You do not help your cause
in doing this. You have just reinforced a steroetype of recreational
drug users, you know...
David is a very special person in very special circumstances. To see
his postings deliberately abused is a very sad thing. I hope that you
are proud of yourself.

Lucida

[ChrisC]

On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 13:06:35 GMT, spambegone@webtv.net (Lucida) wrote:

>On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 12:19:58 +0100, ChrisC
><xchrispcx@nospam.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 18:28:52 -0230, David Dalton <dalton@nfld.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>snip
>>>
>>>I have already mentioned the stuff below on alt.religion.shamanism
>>>where shamanic journeying is often discussed but
>>>I didn't mention the drug aspect there.
>>>
>snip
>snip
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Crossposted to see the responses in ARS.
>>--
>>ChrisC - chrispche@nospam.yahoo.co.uk
>>
>>"Enlightenment, for a wave in the ocean,
>>is the moment the wave realises it is water."
>>
>>Thich Nhat Hanh.
>
>I am assuming that you did not ask David for permission to do so,
>since he had specifically indicated deliberately omitting this from
>his postings here... It is sad to see so little respect for someone's
>wishes, just to advance your own agenda... You do not help your cause
>in doing this. You have just reinforced a steroetype of recreational
>drug users, you know...
>David is a very special person in very special circumstances. To see
>his postings deliberately abused is a very sad thing. I hope that you
>are proud of yourself.
>
>Lucida

Sorry. :-(
--
ChrisC - chrispche@nospam.yahoo.co.uk

"Enlightenment, for a wave in the ocean,
is the moment the wave realises it is water."

Thich Nhat Hanh.

[Magnus_Grey]

spambegone@webtv.net (Lucida) wrote in message news:<3f3642ae.61422746@news.earthlink.net>...
> On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 12:19:58 +0100, ChrisC
> <xchrispcx@nospam.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 18:28:52 -0230, David Dalton <dalton@nfld.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> snip
> >>
> >>I have already mentioned the stuff below on alt.religion.shamanism
> >>where shamanic journeying is often discussed but
> >>I didn't mention the drug aspect there.
> >>
> snip
> snip
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Crossposted to see the responses in ARS.
> >--
> >ChrisC - chrispche@nospam.yahoo.co.uk
> >
> >"Enlightenment, for a wave in the ocean,
> >is the moment the wave realises it is water."
> >
> >Thich Nhat Hanh.
>
> I am assuming that you did not ask David for permission to do so,
> since he had specifically indicated deliberately omitting this from
> his postings here... It is sad to see so little respect for someone's
> wishes, just to advance your own agenda... You do not help your cause
> in doing this. You have just reinforced a steroetype of recreational
> drug users, you know...
> David is a very special person in very special circumstances. To see
> his postings deliberately abused is a very sad thing. I hope that you
> are proud of yourself.
>
> Lucida

Please keep your private quips to your own forum, we have too many
here already. And I am genuinly worried about David's grip on
"reality" and would like to see him respond so I can talk to him. I am
not trying to judge him btw, we have all been delusional at times.

-Bryan

[Lucida]

On 10 Aug 2003 09:49:04 -0700, bryan_dickerson@hotmail.com
(Magnus_Grey) wrote:

>spambegone@webtv.net (Lucida) wrote in message news:<3f3642ae.61422746@news.earthlink.net>...
>> On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 12:19:58 +0100, ChrisC
>> <xchrispcx@nospam.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 18:28:52 -0230, David Dalton <dalton@nfld.com>
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> snip
>> >>
>> >>I have already mentioned the stuff below on alt.religion.shamanism
>> >>where shamanic journeying is often discussed but
>> >>I didn't mention the drug aspect there.
>> >>
>> snip
>> snip
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >Crossposted to see the responses in ARS.
>> >--
>> >ChrisC - chrispche@nospam.yahoo.co.uk
>> >
>> >"Enlightenment, for a wave in the ocean,
>> >is the moment the wave realises it is water."
>> >
>> >Thich Nhat Hanh.
>>
>> I am assuming that you did not ask David for permission to do so,
>> since he had specifically indicated deliberately omitting this from
>> his postings here... It is sad to see so little respect for someone's
>> wishes, just to advance your own agenda... You do not help your cause
>> in doing this. You have just reinforced a steroetype of recreational
>> drug users, you know...
>> David is a very special person in very special circumstances. To see
>> his postings deliberately abused is a very sad thing. I hope that you
>> are proud of yourself.
>>
>> Lucida
>
>Please keep your private quips to your own forum, we have too many
>here already. And I am genuinly worried about David's grip on
>"reality" and would like to see him respond so I can talk to him. I am
>not trying to judge him btw, we have all been delusional at times.
>
>-Bryan

I was not the one who cross-posted this initially. David is aware,
AFAIK, of how tight his grip on reality is. He sees professionals who
are in a better position to evaluate how he is doing than some
stranger on Usenet, no matter how well meaning.

Lucida

[Magnus_Grey]

spambegone@webtv.net (Lucida) wrote in message news:<3f36a312.86103476@news.earthlink.net>...
> On 10 Aug 2003 09:49:04 -0700, bryan_dickerson@hotmail.com
> (Magnus_Grey) wrote:
>
> >spambegone@webtv.net (Lucida) wrote in message news:<3f3642ae.61422746@news.earthlink.net>...
> >> On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 12:19:58 +0100, ChrisC
> >> <xchrispcx@nospam.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 18:28:52 -0230, David Dalton <dalton@nfld.com>
> >> >wrote:
> >> >
> snip
> >> >>
> >> >>I have already mentioned the stuff below on alt.religion.shamanism
> >> >>where shamanic journeying is often discussed but
> >> >>I didn't mention the drug aspect there.
> >> >>
> >> snip
> >> snip
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Crossposted to see the responses in ARS.
> >> >--
> >> >ChrisC - chrispche@nospam.yahoo.co.uk
> >> >
> >> >"Enlightenment, for a wave in the ocean,
> >> >is the moment the wave realises it is water."
> >> >
> >> >Thich Nhat Hanh.
> >>
> >> I am assuming that you did not ask David for permission to do so,
> >> since he had specifically indicated deliberately omitting this from
> >> his postings here... It is sad to see so little respect for someone's
> >> wishes, just to advance your own agenda... You do not help your cause
> >> in doing this. You have just reinforced a steroetype of recreational
> >> drug users, you know...
> >> David is a very special person in very special circumstances. To see
> >> his postings deliberately abused is a very sad thing. I hope that you
> >> are proud of yourself.
> >>
> >> Lucida
> >
> >Please keep your private quips to your own forum, we have too many
> >here already. And I am genuinly worried about David's grip on
> >"reality" and would like to see him respond so I can talk to him. I am
> >not trying to judge him btw, we have all been delusional at times.
> >
> >-Bryan
>
> I was not the one who cross-posted this initially. David is aware,
> AFAIK, of how tight his grip on reality is.

Good, now I just wish he would realise how dangerous using drugs can
be for someone in that position.

> He sees professionals

Good

> who are in a better position to evaluate how he is doing than some
> stranger on Usenet, no matter how well meaning.
>
> Lucida

I agree. I would like to point out that he did post here asking for
our opionions on the subject. Besides, I doubt it will much hurt him
to have someone who believes in the spiritual aspect of drug use tell
him the same things his doctors are. I am not in anyway attempting to
council this man, just to awnser his questions to the best of my
abilities, which unless he has a more specific question at this point,
I feel that I now have sufficently done.

-Be Well
-Bryan

[Magnus_Grey]

By the way, I know that he is not using any psychedelics right now
except alcohol, but, as he seems to think that drug use opens doors
into literal alternate universes, I could seem him deciding to use
such tools and thus have cautioned against it.

-Is run on sentence?
-Bryan

[Lucida]

On 12 Aug 2003 20:00:22 -0700, bryan_dickerson@hotmail.com
(Magnus_Grey) wrote:

>By the way, I know that he is not using any psychedelics right now
>except alcohol, but, as he seems to think that drug use opens doors
>into literal alternate universes, I could seem him deciding to use
>such tools and thus have cautioned against it.
>
>-Is run on sentence?
>-Bryan

Actually, if you read his writings in depth, he had a rather
disturbing incident after smoking a joint, and is not eager to repeat
the experience. I believe that there is a distinction between thinking
something may open a door and actually wanting that door open. David
is a very thoughtful, thought filled man. He has many theories, and
likes to bounce them off others to see if their experience proves them
out. I do not think that he is going to run out and try psychedelics
just now, or in the near future. But, he is very interested AFIK, in
how others have experienced them. He seems, from what I know of him on
Usenet, to have a pretty good idea of what he can and cannot handle in
terms of keeping a grip on reality.
It is nice to see genuine concern for him, and also a rational,
balanced view reflecting the fact that drug use is *not* for everyone.
There has been so much of the whole "It's such a wonderful tool"
attitude, and pushiness from those that do use drugs, that it is truly
refreshing to see some that know that they are not right for everyone,
and that there are risks associated with them.

Blessings,
Lucida

[David Dalton]

Lucida wrote:

> Actually, if you read his writings in depth, he had a rather
> disturbing incident after smoking a joint, and is not eager to repeat
> the experience. I believe that there is a distinction between thinking
> something may open a door and actually wanting that door open.

Yeah, I am pretty sure drug-induced mystic experiences are
not for me but I don't preach against them for others
and I imagine some are quality mystic experiences.

And thanks Lucida, I did indeed have a nast May92 mental
hospitalization due to smoking marijuana during waxing
gibbous moon. However I have had nearly as bad
alcohol triggered or alcohol worsened incidents during
waxing gibbous moon of Jan93, Jul/Aug93, Mar94,
possibly Jan96 (I forget if this was alcohol influenced
or just no lithium), May96, Jun96, and Jul97,
and from after the Mar94 to before the Jan96 one
I abstained from alcohol from 1--9 days before
full moon to good effect, and from the Jul97 one
on I have abstained from alcohol during all of
waxing moon to good effect and indeed at times I
have had a great deal of alcohol (once 11 pints
in 10 hours, twice 8 pints in 6 hours, once
6 pints in 3 hours, but I try to restrict myself
to at most 4 pints in 4 hours) during waning
moon without any problems.

So conceivably I could also try moderate
psychotropic drug use during waning moon
(maybe 3--10 days before new moon) when
I am not in a solar flare triggered
waning crescent high, and probably after
my low years end. However I would be
very careful in doing so and I am not
about to try it anytime soon and the woman
I am most interested in would probably
frown on it for me.

Yesterday I tried to again distribute my
connections to everyone (including
non-humans) and in addition as an afterthought
tried to empower muses and flames (either
way or both in both cases) and those I have
shakti/kundalini buzzed individually either by
imagined kiss high or low or by non-sexual
imagined handshake, hug, or proferred little
finger, and then as a further afterthought
tried to empower further (not just human) other
bipolars, unipolar manics, shizoaffectives
and schizophrenics though though I bet a
flame who is also a strong muse to me might
have gotten more, and anyone (including
drug induced mystics) should be able to use
my connections and link workings/etc I bet.

However I doubt that all worked and yesterday
and today was still a bit wobbly even though it
is waning moon but I had the equivalent of
three bottles of beer last night to no ill
effect and will have a few pints tonight
and was zonked on yesterday's haloperidol this morning
but have perked up since and think a certain
someone might have thought about my nipples
since a while (2hrs?) ago they were points of fire
for the first time in a while. Maybe she
was reading my old soc.sexuality.general posts.

The Peace-A-Chord is on here on the weekend
and Coast Guard and other rock bands are at
The Ship Inn Friday so I will check some of
it out and if you are local to St. John's,
Newfoundland I recommend you do to.

David
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton

[Magnus_Grey]

Hrm,

I find it very interesting that he/you(David) was hospitalized after
smoking a joint, as I have a good friend who had the same thing happen
(including fully psychotic delusions of persicution). Although other
drugs seem to effect him normally, for some reason THC induces
psychosis in him. There are a few literary reports of a similar effect
occuring in other people. I wonder if some rare physiological
idosycratic condition has something to do with this. Anyone else hear
stories of people who have anamolous reactions to pot?

-Good Luck
-Bryan

[David Dalton]

Magnus_Grey wrote:

> I find it very interesting that he/you(David) was hospitalized after
> smoking a joint, as I have a good friend who had the same thing happen
> (including fully psychotic delusions of persicution). Although other
> drugs seem to effect him normally, for some reason THC induces
> psychosis in him. There are a few literary reports of a similar effect
> occuring in other people. I wonder if some rare physiological
> idosycratic condition has something to do with this. Anyone else hear
> stories of people who have anamolous reactions to pot?

Well, I think a lot of people get panic attacks from
pot on occasion and the psychotic episode was just an
extension of a panic attack with the world turning
very sour around me (which Taliesin described as
the prison of Arianrhod I think). My brother John
also has had panic attacks from pot and doesn't touch
it but doesn't have mental illness, but there may
be a genetic component. Certainly the first time
I tried pot (probably milder) in late high school
it was a pulsing, relaxing, erotic experience.

I'm off to The Ship Inn again,
David
p.s. I wonder if any drug agents are interested in me?
(Of course I don't think so or you could label
me as possibly paranoid unless they were.)

[Gary Walters]

There is more than what when can see, hear, taste, smell, and feel. We are
all just matter slowed down to this vibrational reality. If physics truly
works this can't possibly be all there is. There are thing all around us
that we are not picking up because they are out of our range of senses, but
make no mistake, they are there. If (BIG IF) drugs can change a person
perception then it may just be possible to see, hear, taste, smell, and feel
in that alternate/other reality.

Gary

"I shall never believe that God plays dice with the world."
Albert Einstein

God not only plays dice. He also sometimes throws the dice where they cannot
be seen.

Stephen Hawking (1942- ), British physicist.
Referring to Albert Einstein's objection to quantum theory, "I shall never
believe that God plays dice with the world."

[nihilim]

Some have said that believing in the undetectable is akin to paranoia.
------ ------- ------
There is no Revolution.