Re: drug enhanced mystic abilities

[Magnus_Grey]

David Dalton <dalton@nfld.com> wrote in message news:<bh12uc$amu$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca>...
> Drugs are used in religious practice in various cultures
> worldwide including Central and South American native
> spirituality and Sufi whirling dervish traditions.

This is true, there are many more.

> Years ago I supposedly divined the existence of

What the heck does supposedly divined mean?

> an ability called psychotropic drug enhanced abilities which supposedly
> endowed the drug user who had this ability with magical
> powers.

Is this somthing you read, or made up yourself?


> Now I later retracted the specifics of that but bet
> that such religious traditions worldwide indicate that some
> drug use and certain meditation practices may result
> in quality mystic states.

Mysic states of perception, not gained "magic" powers.

> Such traditions (some
> documented by Wade Davis) may also have some knowledge
> on spacing and alternation of drugs to avoid addiction,
> perhaps, but I am speculating there (i.e. if you
> had ten good drugs and took one every three days
> that would be once a month for each and might not lead to
> addiction).

This is absolutly ridiculous.

>
> I have already mentioned the stuff below on alt.religion.shamanism
> where shamanic journeying is often discussed but
> I didn't mention the drug aspect there.
>

Why not?


> I am posting this here since I think that during
> drug highs, either in body or in astral form, some of
> you might be able to communicate better with afterlife
> someones, species someones (defined below) and
> perhaps even deitie(es) to you than I can (except
> maybe one-way). In addition to deities to
> living humans and others, the meeting I proposed
> below was to include significant species someones
> and also afterlife someones of significant past
> religious figures, and angels (if you don't
> consider such to be afterlife someones). But
> basically I would like you to check, during any
> drug-induced mystic state, whether such a
> meeting is ongoing or will soon; but don't
> believe any such voice unless it also communicates
> with someone you know so you can verify it.
>

Wow, thats crazy talk. If you think drugs can give you "magic", you
still dont get it, and will only make yourself crazy. If you believe
that your trips are real, and that that the entities are somehow
connected to anything outside your own mind, you don't get it, and are
in risk of becoming seriosly delusional. Drugs alter your perceptions,
not "reality", and your perception of "reality" in "astral" states is
no more "real" than my lucid dreams.


> Recently I have been sometimes in prayer mode (but I
> don't hear voices back and if you do, ask the
> voice to send the same message to someone else so
> you can check it),

This will never work. Well I guess you could infect other with your
delusions and form a cult.

> I guess talking one-way to my deities
> again trying to initiate a meeting of all someones
> who are and/or were each deity to at least one DNA-based someone;
> plus others invited and interested but I won't go into details
> here unless someone asks me to, but my prayer/suggestion for
> the agenda was for the meeting to discuss the future of the
> human species, interactions within that species,
> interactions between that species and other species (including
> any alien species we might meet in the next 1000 years and/or
> have met), and interactions of that species within the
> environment whether you define environment as
> the biosphere, as the earth (Gaia), as space
> and its contents (Cosma) or as all/everything (who
> I call God).

Your perceptions are interesting, and I'm sure you can learn from
them, but they do not represent concious forces controling the
universe anywhere outside your head. Don't worry, many of us go
through a similar phase.

> I also suggested that it judge my
> stuff (writings, speakings, thinkings, magickal
> workings with or without invocations of deities,
> suggestions/prayers, links, link workings,
> species balancings, etc.) of the last 12 years,
> particularly the last 7.55 years, and perhaps
> allow me to graduate as a shaman.

You must assume that a shaman is a mythological figure, if you think
you need someone to make you one.

> Some of you may be
> able to find out if such a meeting is going on but
> I am unable to, but have suggested agenda items
> as you could as well.
>

If you talk outloud about what you belive, expect to face some serious
judgememts. Not by us, but by your friends and family. Why not try
writing a book about all this, might help teach you some context. Try
reading Prometheous Rising by Robert Anton Wilson, he can help teach
you to be propperly sceptical of all perceptions.

> The co-chairs of the meeting were to
> be my 8 non-SSOSOSS (SSOSOSS=species someone of other
> species of significant sign; species someone is
> the smallest someone containing a species and may
> be like a collective consciousness only also
> containing bodies and even any parts containing DNA
> [e.g. a seagull feather] or even any DNA [but
> for non-DNA-based species there would have to be
> some parallel to our species-defining DNA]) deities
> who are God (all/everything), LOVE (God's definition
> of love/goodness), Cosma, Galacta (the galaxy),
> Sola (the sun), Gaia, Luna (the moon) and Human
> (the species someone of the human species).
>

I doubt anyone has any idea what you are talking about.

> Why should I be able to suggest such a meeting any
> more than anyone else? Well maybe anyone else
> could suggest such a meeting as well.
>
> For more on me if you like see my Salmon on the Thorns page,
> http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html .
>
> David

Stop using drugs until you have meditated a few more years on eastern
thought. You are at serious risk of becoming psycotic in your quest to
gain magic powers, you are already significantly delusional. All of
your ideas are interesting, but not real. No conceptions or models can
actually describe reality, not you, not the bible, not even me. So why
try do define what lies beyond the limit of our perceptions. Enjoy
life in this world, as it is. Why would you be incarnated this
"material plane" anyway, unless this is where you have work to do.
Stop trying to escape life and the physical world, and accept life as
it is, not how you wish it could be, you will live a happier life if
you do.

-Good Luck
-Bryan

[Mark]

"David dalton" didnt sound crazy to me, and he certainly didnt sound
like he was forcing his thoughts on anyone... there are others that
post regularly that do. The whole 'entity contact' versus 'collective
unconscious/symbolic' arguement is a good one, and I have come to the
conclusion that it doesnt matter. You are the one that is trying to
force your scientific beliefs on David. If you dont agree, great. But
to assume you are right is as bad as what you think David is doing.
Why is looking through our perceptions and seeing gods, magical power,
and mystery worse than seeing something we think we understand? I
guess you think terence mckenna is crazy?
Well, 'David', keep at it, but as Magnus advised, dont trust your
perception completely. Dont be paranoid, just dont mistake the little
truth for the big truth (we all do it).

bryan_dickerson@hotmail.com (Magnus_Grey) wrote in message news:<b9a896a6.0308091433.4579dee0@posting.google.com>...
> David Dalton <dalton@nfld.com> wrote in message news:<bh12uc$amu$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca>...
> > Drugs are used in religious practice in various cultures
> > worldwide including Central and South American native
> > spirituality and Sufi whirling dervish traditions.
>
> This is true, there are many more.
>
> > Years ago I supposedly divined the existence of
>
> What the heck does supposedly divined mean?
>
> > an ability called psychotropic drug enhanced abilities which supposedly
> > endowed the drug user who had this ability with magical
> > powers.
>
> Is this somthing you read, or made up yourself?
>
>
> > Now I later retracted the specifics of that but bet
> > that such religious traditions worldwide indicate that some
> > drug use and certain meditation practices may result
> > in quality mystic states.
>
> Mysic states of perception, not gained "magic" powers.
>
> > Such traditions (some
> > documented by Wade Davis) may also have some knowledge
> > on spacing and alternation of drugs to avoid addiction,
> > perhaps, but I am speculating there (i.e. if you
> > had ten good drugs and took one every three days
> > that would be once a month for each and might not lead to
> > addiction).
>
> This is absolutly ridiculous.
>
> >
> > I have already mentioned the stuff below on alt.religion.shamanism
> > where shamanic journeying is often discussed but
> > I didn't mention the drug aspect there.
> >
>
> Why not?
>
>
> > I am posting this here since I think that during
> > drug highs, either in body or in astral form, some of
> > you might be able to communicate better with afterlife
> > someones, species someones (defined below) and
> > perhaps even deitie(es) to you than I can (except
> > maybe one-way). In addition to deities to
> > living humans and others, the meeting I proposed
> > below was to include significant species someones
> > and also afterlife someones of significant past
> > religious figures, and angels (if you don't
> > consider such to be afterlife someones). But
> > basically I would like you to check, during any
> > drug-induced mystic state, whether such a
> > meeting is ongoing or will soon; but don't
> > believe any such voice unless it also communicates
> > with someone you know so you can verify it.
> >
>
> Wow, thats crazy talk. If you think drugs can give you "magic", you
> still dont get it, and will only make yourself crazy. If you believe
> that your trips are real, and that that the entities are somehow
> connected to anything outside your own mind, you don't get it, and are
> in risk of becoming seriosly delusional. Drugs alter your perceptions,
> not "reality", and your perception of "reality" in "astral" states is
> no more "real" than my lucid dreams.
>
>
> > Recently I have been sometimes in prayer mode (but I
> > don't hear voices back and if you do, ask the
> > voice to send the same message to someone else so
> > you can check it),
>
> This will never work. Well I guess you could infect other with your
> delusions and form a cult.
>
> > I guess talking one-way to my deities
> > again trying to initiate a meeting of all someones
> > who are and/or were each deity to at least one DNA-based someone;
> > plus others invited and interested but I won't go into details
> > here unless someone asks me to, but my prayer/suggestion for
> > the agenda was for the meeting to discuss the future of the
> > human species, interactions within that species,
> > interactions between that species and other species (including
> > any alien species we might meet in the next 1000 years and/or
> > have met), and interactions of that species within the
> > environment whether you define environment as
> > the biosphere, as the earth (Gaia), as space
> > and its contents (Cosma) or as all/everything (who
> > I call God).
>
> Your perceptions are interesting, and I'm sure you can learn from
> them, but they do not represent concious forces controling the
> universe anywhere outside your head. Don't worry, many of us go
> through a similar phase.
>
> > I also suggested that it judge my
> > stuff (writings, speakings, thinkings, magickal
> > workings with or without invocations of deities,
> > suggestions/prayers, links, link workings,
> > species balancings, etc.) of the last 12 years,
> > particularly the last 7.55 years, and perhaps
> > allow me to graduate as a shaman.
>
> You must assume that a shaman is a mythological figure, if you think
> you need someone to make you one.
>
> > Some of you may be
> > able to find out if such a meeting is going on but
> > I am unable to, but have suggested agenda items
> > as you could as well.
> >
>
> If you talk outloud about what you belive, expect to face some serious
> judgememts. Not by us, but by your friends and family. Why not try
> writing a book about all this, might help teach you some context. Try
> reading Prometheous Rising by Robert Anton Wilson, he can help teach
> you to be propperly sceptical of all perceptions.
>
> > The co-chairs of the meeting were to
> > be my 8 non-SSOSOSS (SSOSOSS=species someone of other
> > species of significant sign; species someone is
> > the smallest someone containing a species and may
> > be like a collective consciousness only also
> > containing bodies and even any parts containing DNA
> > [e.g. a seagull feather] or even any DNA [but
> > for non-DNA-based species there would have to be
> > some parallel to our species-defining DNA]) deities
> > who are God (all/everything), LOVE (God's definition
> > of love/goodness), Cosma, Galacta (the galaxy),
> > Sola (the sun), Gaia, Luna (the moon) and Human
> > (the species someone of the human species).
> >
>
> I doubt anyone has any idea what you are talking about.
>
> > Why should I be able to suggest such a meeting any
> > more than anyone else? Well maybe anyone else
> > could suggest such a meeting as well.
> >
> > For more on me if you like see my Salmon on the Thorns page,
> > http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html .
> >
> > David
>
> Stop using drugs until you have meditated a few more years on eastern
> thought. You are at serious risk of becoming psycotic in your quest to
> gain magic powers, you are already significantly delusional. All of
> your ideas are interesting, but not real. No conceptions or models can
> actually describe reality, not you, not the bible, not even me. So why
> try do define what lies beyond the limit of our perceptions. Enjoy
> life in this world, as it is. Why would you be incarnated this
> "material plane" anyway, unless this is where you have work to do.
> Stop trying to escape life and the physical world, and accept life as
> it is, not how you wish it could be, you will live a happier life if
> you do.
>
> -Good Luck
> -Bryan

[Magnus_Grey]

a0d72@aol.com (Mark) wrote in message news:<32693541.0308091921.3df8e498@posting.google.com>...
> "David dalton" didnt sound crazy to me,

I never said he was crazy. ALthough you must think that to have said
it yourself. I said that the literal belief in your experiances is
delusional. Assuming that other people can share your altered stated
is delusional.


> and he certainly didnt sound
> like he was forcing his thoughts on anyone...

I never said that he was, I did say that if he talks about his beliefs
in public, somone might become concerened.

> there are others that
> post regularly that do. The whole 'entity contact' versus 'collective
> unconscious/symbolic' arguement

There lots of other views as well

> is a good one, and I have come to the
> conclusion that it doesnt matter.

Good, me too. Although to him it does, because he is trying to get
other people to help contact entities and report their communications.
This is not going to work, no matter what "real" is.

> You are the one that is trying to
> force your scientific beliefs on David.

Scientific, who said my beliefs were scientific? And you are quite
wrong. My intent is not to change what he belives, but to help him
learn to express those belifs in a context that is less likely to wind
him up in a mental institution. Did you read his website?

> If you dont agree, great.

As he is reporting his perceptions, and not facts, I can neither agree
nor diagree.

> But to assume you are right is as bad as what you think David is doing.

I don't assume that I am right. However taking ones drug/mystical
experiances as "real" representations of another world that remains
consistant and can influance this one is delusional. Taking drugs to
try and gain magic powers is very delusional, and not possible. Do you
have magic powers? Besides if "astral travel" really worked like
magic, people could just use it to talk to each other like a
telephone, and It would be pretty easy to verify.

> Why is looking through our perceptions and seeing gods, magical power,
> and mystery worse than seeing something we think we understand?

That was my point, I don't understand these things. It is not seeing
these entites that makes one delusional, or even contacting them. It
is the belief that they actually exsist independently of one's self in
a concrete realm that is delusional, much like christianity. Whatever
validity his perceptions may have, the symbol will never be the thing
itself. Rule of being a limited human.

> I guess you think terence mckenna is crazy?

I would say that the literal belief that sentient mushrooms from space
were responsible for the evolution of humans from animals is also
delusional. But from most of the conversations I have had with people
that knew Mckenna, he was a con artist anyway.

> Well, 'David', keep at it, but as Magnus advised, dont trust your
> perception completely. Dont be paranoid, just dont mistake the little
> truth for the big truth (we all do it).

So, after wasting all this time arguing with my advice, you parrot it.
Thanks.

-Bryan

P.S. Do YOU believe that anything is real?

[Mark]

how was mckenna a con artist? please explain....

> > I guess you think terence mckenna is crazy?
>
> I would say that the literal belief that sentient mushrooms from space
> were responsible for the evolution of humans from animals is also
> delusional. But from most of the conversations I have had with people
> that knew Mckenna, he was a con artist anyway.
>
> > Well, 'David', keep at it, but as Magnus advised, dont trust your
> > perception completely. Dont be paranoid, just dont mistake the little
> > truth for the big truth (we all do it).
>
> So, after wasting all this time arguing with my advice, you parrot it.
> Thanks.
>
> -Bryan
>
> P.S. Do YOU believe that anything is real?

i just like taking the opposite side of whoever i'm talking to.
p.s. whats 'real'? and why do my beliefs matter?

[David Dalton]

Magnus_Grey wrote:

> David Dalton <dalton@nfld.com> wrote in message
> news:<bh12uc$amu$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca>...
>> Drugs are used in religious practice in various cultures
>> worldwide including Central and South American native
>> spirituality and Sufi whirling dervish traditions.
>
> This is true, there are many more.
>
>> Years ago I supposedly divined the existence of
>
> What the heck does supposedly divined mean?

Well, it was supposed base chakra area muscle click
(short period mulabhanda yes/no response, basically)
divination, supposed since it doesn't actually work
but leads me into delusion if I believe it blindly,
like the serpent in the garden or Myrddin talking
to his little "piggy" in the wilderness, perhaps.

>> an ability called psychotropic drug enhanced abilities which supposedly
>> endowed the drug user who had this ability with magical
>> powers.
>
> Is this somthing you read, or made up yourself?

Partly supposedly divined and partly made up and only
slightly based on very little reading on drug using
shamans.

>> Now I later retracted the specifics of that but bet
>> that such religious traditions worldwide indicate that some
>> drug use and certain meditation practices may result
>> in quality mystic states.
>
> Mysic states of perception, not gained "magic" powers.

It depends how you define magic I guess, but certainly
South American shamans are said to use drugs to attain
powerful mystic states but I don't know if things such
as their ability to heal while in such states and/or
ability to identify new herbal medicines while in
such states has been documented.

>> Such traditions (some
>> documented by Wade Davis) may also have some knowledge
>> on spacing and alternation of drugs to avoid addiction,
>> perhaps, but I am speculating there (i.e. if you
>> had ten good drugs and took one every three days
>> that would be once a month for each and might not lead to
>> addiction).
>
> This is absolutly ridiculous.

Huh? Alternation, spacing and moderation of relatively
soft natural drugs is certainly preferable to ever
increasing dose of one type of concentrate or synthetic
leading to severe addiction, isn't it?

>> I have already mentioned the stuff below on alt.religion.shamanism
>> where shamanic journeying is often discussed but
>> I didn't mention the drug aspect there.

> Why not?

I posted the post to alt.religion.shamanism earlier
and forgot to mention any drug link and then the
drug groups were an afterthought, but I later
on alt.religion.shamanism mentioned my post to
talk.politics.drugs including the thought that
the original human figure for Quetzacoatl was
similar to me, based just on D.H. Lawrence poems, so far.

Also I don't mind Chris C. having crossposted a quote of
my original post in this thread to alt.religion.shamanism .

>> I am posting this here since I think that during
>> drug highs, either in body or in astral form, some of
>> you might be able to communicate better with afterlife
>> someones, species someones (defined below) and
>> perhaps even deitie(es) to you than I can (except
>> maybe one-way). In addition to deities to
>> living humans and others, the meeting I proposed
>> below was to include significant species someones
>> and also afterlife someones of significant past
>> religious figures, and angels (if you don't
>> consider such to be afterlife someones). But
>> basically I would like you to check, during any
>> drug-induced mystic state, whether such a
>> meeting is ongoing or will soon; but don't
>> believe any such voice unless it also communicates
>> with someone you know so you can verify it.
>>
>
> Wow, thats crazy talk. If you think drugs can give you "magic", you
> still dont get it, and will only make yourself crazy. If you believe
> that your trips are real, and that that the entities are somehow
> connected to anything outside your own mind, you don't get it, and are
> in risk of becoming seriosly delusional. Drugs alter your perceptions,
> not "reality", and your perception of "reality" in "astral" states is
> no more "real" than my lucid dreams.

Well, I'm undecided as to whether e.g. South American shamans
drug-induced mystic states are purely internal or not,
but some believe they attain better connection/communion
with external someones (or someones that we are part
of, or someones that intersect us) by drugs and I
was aiming my post at those individuals and at other
undecided individuals, which you are not. But I
currently do not use psychotropic drugs myself
but still drink alcohol during waning moon.

>> Recently I have been sometimes in prayer mode (but I
>> don't hear voices back and if you do, ask the
>> voice to send the same message to someone else so
>> you can check it),
>
> This will never work. Well I guess you could infect other with your
> delusions and form a cult.

Huh, if two independent people get the same message in
their heads and later compare notes that is not
delusion, that is evidence, sort of like the time
a bunch of people dreamed of White Buffalo Woman
at the same time (but I forget the details of that.)

>> I guess talking one-way to my deities
>> again trying to initiate a meeting of all someones
>> who are and/or were each deity to at least one DNA-based someone;
>> plus others invited and interested but I won't go into details
>> here unless someone asks me to, but my prayer/suggestion for
>> the agenda was for the meeting to discuss the future of the
>> human species, interactions within that species,
>> interactions between that species and other species (including
>> any alien species we might meet in the next 1000 years and/or
>> have met), and interactions of that species within the
>> environment whether you define environment as
>> the biosphere, as the earth (Gaia), as space
>> and its contents (Cosma) or as all/everything (who
>> I call God).
>
> Your perceptions are interesting, and I'm sure you can learn from
> them, but they do not represent concious forces controling the
> universe anywhere outside your head. Don't worry, many of us go
> through a similar phase.

Sure, I know that there may be no such meeting, and you may
be an atheist who believes there are no non-human someones,
or a rigid monotheist who believes that the only someones
are humans and his Deity, but I am not. I said I suggested
such a meeting to my 8 main deities (which you could view as
an ideal, as someones [or you may say non-someones] that
I am part of, and as someones [or you may again say
non-someones] that I tune to, and I wanted any who thought
they had mystic drug-enhanced mind to mind communication
abilities to see if there was such a meeting yet and
confirm scientifically by requesting that someone else
get the same message for confirmation. But I wasn't
seriously believing for sure it would work and hence
it can't be classed as delusion, and even if I did
believe it and there was no evidence for or against
it might still be classed just as harmless magical
thinking and not as delusion.

>> I also suggested that it judge my
>> stuff (writings, speakings, thinkings, magickal
>> workings with or without invocations of deities,
>> suggestions/prayers, links, link workings,
>> species balancings, etc.) of the last 12 years,
>> particularly the last 7.55 years, and perhaps
>> allow me to graduate as a shaman.
>
> You must assume that a shaman is a mythological figure, if you think
> you need someone to make you one.

You think anyone can just declare that she or he is a shaman?
I guess that is true but will anyone else believe her or him?
But I have been influenced by many muses and science and
science fiction and fantasy and a fair bit of skimming
in mythology and religion (but certainly mostly skimming)
and Canadian standards including those of animal rights
and environmental groups within Canada. However
the last while has been largely fumbling on my own,
following the early inspirations and trial, i.e.
pretty much a 7.55 year long trial in which I have
learned to think for myself rather than blindly
rely on old information or on my deities (but I'm
sure in the coming decades I will learn some more
from old information and indeed my main messages on
my web page are what I am trying to get across,
not details of my evolving personal spiritual path
which may change with reading and with my attempts
to more closely reconcile it with science). But
I don't yet know much traditional stuff associated
with many shamans worldwide so even after my next
waning crescent high ending my low years I will be
probably not a global shaman or even a shaman [depending
on the definition of shaman] but a fledgling opener
of the way in need of a holiday.

>> Some of you may be
>> able to find out if such a meeting is going on but
>> I am unable to, but have suggested agenda items
>> as you could as well.
>>
>
> If you talk outloud about what you belive, expect to face some serious
> judgememts. Not by us, but by your friends and family. Why not try
> writing a book about all this, might help teach you some context. Try
> reading Prometheous Rising by Robert Anton Wilson, he can help teach
> you to be propperly sceptical of all perceptions.

Sounds, good, I will mentally add it to my long list of
books to get to eventually. But I try to be reasonably
skeptical and some of my posts in the last while to
talk.atheism which you could get by a http://groups.google.com
search for
group:talk.atheism author:dalton@nfld.com
address that and to some extent the main Salmon page,
Science subpage, Deities/beliefs subpage and
Deities intro subsubpage address that already though
I have a few more ideas to add eventually including some
mentioned on talk.atheism a while ago. But basically
I am going to try to describe my situation from
viewpoints of scietific atheism, different forms
of monotheism, and different forms of polytheism
and have made a rough start at it given the little
time I have been devoting to it. But for now
I guess I am an individual/eclectic polytheistic
neopagan but very little other than my main messages
(on the main Salmon page, Deities/beliefs subpage,
maybe a little in the Deities intro subsubpage,
and reviewed on the shakti/kundalini buzz thread
on alt.magick recently as part of my debate with
Manish) is carved in stone even for me especially
since some of it was developed during my low years
and I was at times on wrong tangents during said
low years.

>> The co-chairs of the meeting were to
>> be my 8 non-SSOSOSS (SSOSOSS=species someone of other
>> species of significant sign; species someone is
>> the smallest someone containing a species and may
>> be like a collective consciousness only also
>> containing bodies and even any parts containing DNA
>> [e.g. a seagull feather] or even any DNA [but
>> for non-DNA-based species there would have to be
>> some parallel to our species-defining DNA]) deities
>> who are God (all/everything), LOVE (God's definition
>> of love/goodness), Cosma, Galacta (the galaxy),
>> Sola (the sun), Gaia, Luna (the moon) and Human
>> (the species someone of the human species).
>>
>
> I doubt anyone has any idea what you are talking about.

Well, it seems straightforward to me, and I don't
use the term universe since that is sometimes
defined as space and its contents and sometimes
as all/everything but if I use it I mean space
and its contents. Basically I listed my eight
main deities (and certainly other species someones
or other stars, planets, moons, galaxies or
parallel universes would not be on that list
for me at least but Human, Luna, Gaia,
Sola, Galacta and Cosma all have local
interest and great power to affect the human
species whether you consider them someones
[I define a someone as a something {all/everything
or a subset of all/everything} that has a will;
i.e. has the ability to choose, possibly at
widely different scales including time scales;
I will worry about physical and psychological
theories of consciousness later when I worry
about possible advances in physics] or not).
That is pretty straightfoward.

>> Why should I be able to suggest such a meeting any
>> more than anyone else? Well maybe anyone else
>> could suggest such a meeting as well.
>>
>> For more on me if you like see my Salmon on the Thorns page,
>> http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html .
>>
>> David
>
> Stop using drugs until you have meditated a few more years on eastern
> thought. You are at serious risk of becoming psycotic in your quest to
> gain magic powers, you are already significantly delusional. All of
> your ideas are interesting, but not real. No conceptions or models can
> actually describe reality, not you, not the bible, not even me. So why
> try do define what lies beyond the limit of our perceptions. Enjoy
> life in this world, as it is. Why would you be incarnated this
> "material plane" anyway, unless this is where you have work to do.
> Stop trying to escape life and the physical world, and accept life as
> it is, not how you wish it could be, you will live a happier life if
> you do.

I don't use psychotropic drugs, but do drink alcohol in
moderation during waning moon unless I am in a waning
crescent hypomania. I tend to be weirder online than
off, and allow myself to be weirder with certain
individuals offline and in certain groups including
mental health support, religion and now again
after a while away, drug groups, where I thought
some weirdness would not be unusual. But I am
indeed healthily skeptical of my theories these
days after many failures, and I don't think my
psychiatrist considers me delusional but he may
think I dabble in magical thinking a bit. But as
I say on my web page, we all should have a common
ground of current leading edge science with
error bars on data and current best human rights,
environmental and animal rights standards and
anything beyond that may be magical thinking
but can be viewed as beautiful diversity/exploration/creativity
and as data is extended one or more such theories
may become part of the standard, but I think we
will never know everything and indeed it is good
to have stuff left to learn.

Again, my Salmon on the Thorns web page is at
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html
but it is a bit out of date and I might edit
it into three nested versions soon, a
short version, medium version for those
who want more detail, and longer version
for those who want even more detail but
for now the main page (some of the figures
on which I may have wrong since I haven't researched
many of them much yet, and I haven't added
the original human figure of Quetzacoatl
yet but may on Saturday) and Summary
subpage might provide a start and anyone
interested further could check the other
sections.

Well, on the delusion scale of 0--10
where 0--2 is normal I would say I was
maybe 3 when I posted the original post
in this thread and 1 right now and perhaps
2 last night. I am still hoping for
good things at full moon tonight and/or
during waning crescent but I am not
predicting anything and am not really
holding out much hope so will be pleasantly
surprise if something happens. But I'm
not doing too badly and will keep plugging
along.

Also a few more people are talking
back to me now rather than just ignoring
me and that is OK but means I have to spend
more time on replies like this one (I haven't
checked some of the drug groups I posted to
yet but may later), and I have a bit more
in the way of hits on my web page but haven't
really been keeping track of the counter,
but the tabloids haven't listed my web page
address yet and I hope they don't until I
come out of the low years and do some good
poems and edit the page a bit.

So you like eastern thought? Well I am at the far
east of Canada, and I don't really like any
thought of separating spirit and matter/energy
or physical and non-physical as you seem to
but I know I have lots to learn so thanks for
your healthily skeptical thoughts. But I
guess you are not a big fan of drugs for anyone
not just yourself? I'm not a big fan of them
for myself right now.

David